I need your opinion

Brandy · 06-07-2007, 07:51 AM

we've been going through a few things with Sasha and Craig is bound and determined to put her to sleep

Sasha has ALWAYS been very protective over me, even if Craig and I wrestle and play around, she gets very upset with Craig, growls and will grab his arm and all that, shes never actually botten him but she will literally stand in between us and if he tries to touch me, she jumps at him, Ive never thought much of this but after posting on a Boxer board about this, Ive been told this is actually very BAD...its not just Craig, she doesnt like many people near me,,

I have a hard time walking Sasha because she literally wants to eat EVERY dog/cat/horse/ in sight, I can control her when we walk but most dogs run right up her her even though shes growling at them, I watch the dog whisperer and Ive been reading on this like crazy, I tried it all and mind you its helped greatly, I still have to keep a very close eye on her,,,she LOVES dogs if m not around,,,example is she got loose last fall, I seen my neighbor and her dog walking up the road and I panicked thinking OMG, Sasha HATES Sophie their German Shepard and she was running right for them, I thought she was going to go attack,,,BUT instead Sasha ran right up to them and played and licked and was all excited,,,

I was shocked to say the least,,,BUT once I got Sasha back on her leash and walked beside her, she tried the whole way home to get at and attack Sophie, my neighbors were shocked because she literally went into attack mode as soon as she was with me

Also now when ANYONE walks by the house she growls and barks at them in the window and if shes outside,,NOBODY is allowed in this yard, she will growl, hair stand up, foam at the mouth,,,,,but if I bring her in the house and the SAME people come in, she jmps all over them excited as can be,,,so obviously shes very territorial over her property

but recently shes taking a very BAD hatred on with Moe, one of our cats,,she attacks him , at first when he walked by her, her hair would stand up and she would growl ,,,then 3-4 times she actually went after him growling, very MAD,,,but as soon as I yell at her, she snaps out of it,,,

BUT this last attack she didnt do that, seriously all Moe did was walk in froont of her,,,Sasha SNAPPED, she lost it, she went after him , she grabbed him, she shook him, she had both paws wrapped around and was biting his head like crazy, I was yelling, Craig was freaking out, tugging at her, pushing her, hitting her,,NOTHING, she would not let go, she didnt even notice us there, finally Craig lifted her up by the collar right off the floor, she had no choice to let him go,,,once she did she snapped out of it and started shaking and keeping her head down, she KNEW she was bad and she knew she wasnt supposed to, but I seen the look in her face,,it was almost as if someone turned a switch on/off

ohh I forgot a few weeks ago a kid down the road came to the door looking for money for the jump rope marathon,,,,Sasha lunged at the door, jumping at it, growling, barking, it was awful, the poor kid was scared, I yelled to him through the window, that I would bring some money down to him later on,,,

and now that Ace is here , whenever I hold Ace or he gets in my bed or anything like that, Sasha shakes all over and her hair stands up and she just growls at him....if hes not near me,,SHE LOVES HIM

Sasha doesnt have food/bone/toy aggression or any of that stuff

ohh and she doesnt like it when men come in with hats on,,she doesnt like hats for some reason, but she isnt bothered by Craig wearing them or females

and when men come in the house lately she seems to pee all over the floors,,,,,she cant control it,,,I dont know if this means anything

Sasha is 4.5 years old, got her from a backyard breeder (I know, Ive learnt from this) shes great with other dogs if were away from the places she knows, like if we take her to town, she is awesome with everyone and everything,,,so its abviously terratorial...

Now Ive got it in my head that I can control her, but Craig says its NOT worth the chance, she snapped once, Craig's worried she will do it again, and next time we might not be so lucky, it might be another kid or something, the boys are getting older and hes worried if they have a friend over and they get ina fight or something, Sasha wont tolerate that since shes protective over the kids as well, just not as bad as me

shes getting worse as shes aging and I just dont know what to do
I know Im responsible for her and I have to keep everyone safe, but shes my baby, and I can tell she doesnt want to be this way,,,,I just dont know if i can stop it,,,

I would love your HONEST opinions on what I should do
Moe my cat will no longer step foot in this house, and I feel awful, he ran outside after he was attacked and he hasnt come in since, we try to coax him but no way, he wont even come into eat, so we have to feed him outside, I want him back inside!! hes scared, and even when hes with me on the front steps, hes very nervous and always looking at the windows and all around, hes not relaxed at all and Moe is one of the most laid back/relaxed cats you could ever ask for

Ive had Sasha since she was 5 weeks old, and I cant imagine not having her,,,but I dont want to take the chance with her hurting anyone either, shes very strong and powerful......but shes also the sofest, gentlest, cuddle bug on the face of the earth!!

+

RossGirl · 06-07-2007, 02:58 PM

Brandy, (this is going to be a long post)
I too, am in love with an aggressive dog. Joeybear is half chow/brittany. We adopted him from the humane society at 7 weeks old. He came in at 10days old, abandon. He was hand raised until we adopted him.
My mom and dad used to babysit joey when he was really young when mine and scott's schedule conflicted. Unbeknownst to us, my mom's dacshound used to steal joey's food from his bowl.
Joey started with the dog aggression soon after we got Pippin. ( by then he was two years old) We have similiar problems, if Joey is around other dog's he is fine, playing in the backyard and when we have taken him to the dog park. If he is on lead and only when I am walking him, he starts to act funny. You can tell when he is in a bad mood.
Shortly after we got Molson he attacked him. Molson thankfully was not harmed in any serious way. He just knows to stay away from Joey.
I called in an animal behaviorlist that was recommened to me. My first thought was that I would have him put down. I could not possibly give him to another family and not know how he was treated. That thought would hurt me more then putting him down.
After several consultations with the animal behaviourlist. We concluded that Joey does have dog aggression( no human aggression thank goodness) She gave me many tips and techniques to help us in dealing with Joey's behavior.
I understand your underlying fear of "what if the next time", as I deal with it daily and always think about the situations I put Joey into.

He will live out his days with us, and we have learned to react differently to his behaviour.
I have learned one thing, I will NEVER have another dog with aggressive tendancies. I plan on sticking with labs to be honest.

If you need to talk to just vent you can always PM me, I completely understand what you are going through and it breaks my heart.

Brandy · 06-07-2007, 07:07 PM

Thanks Theresa, I didnt know that Joey had dog aggression

we unfortunately dont have any dog behaviorists around here, I wouldnt even trust the obedience trainers

what are some of the things that helps you deal with it? is there anything I could be doing or should be doing? I know her moods pretty well and I know when shes having an 'off' day, she usually always gives lots of warning , by growling, hair stands on end, shakes, that type of thing, but when she attacked Moe there was NO warning at all,,,nothing,,thats what scares me

I dont let her outside alone anymore (unless its late at night) for fear someone will walk by when shes out there, sometimes she is SO good, and I know she wants to please us all the time, I know she doesnt want to be like this,,

I could NEVER rehome her knowing how she can turn, I owuld never trust her with anyone else, and i definately wouldnt want her in the wrong hands,,

Im glad you understand my fears/concerns , it makes me feel better and talking about it has actually helped to, my heart rips to pieces when I think about what might happen

Candycane · 06-07-2007, 07:11 PM

I'm sorry that you are having these troubles with Sasha.

It does sound like a behaviourist would be your best method...but I'm guessing that would be difficult for you to find.

One thing that I can think of is distraction training for the walking part. It will be difficult and likely take awhile but I really feel that if you can keep her attention on something else, walking may be easier for you.

Is there any possibility that she may have a medical condition? The only reason I ask is because of the recent issue with Max. He was SO aggressive when he wasn't feeling well.

suzoo · 06-07-2007, 10:39 PM

I was wondering about a medical issue as well. When did this start? I would think if it was her temperment only, you would have seen the signs from puppyhood. My brothers Boxer as she got older started having seizures.. the staring type seizures. She would then act really weird for the rest of the day. My sis-in-law would keep the kids away from her and let her sleep it off. Then she'd be back to normal by the next day... until the next time.
If I think of it.. I'll ask our Dog Behaviour Specialist at work for her opinion.. why she might be doing this & how to deal with it.

RossGirl · 06-07-2007, 11:14 PM

Brandy, I can always tell when Joey is having an "off" day as well.
I used to feel bad when I would take Pippin to play with other dogs and have to leave Joey at home.
The animal behav. told me that I would not make my son go to my daughter's ballet class, so why would I make Joey go and "play" with other dogs like Pippin. She said I could do something special for Joey while we took Pippin out, such as fill his kong with special treats. she said it was not in Joeys nature to be a social dog like a lab, so I shouldn't be putting him in situations like that if I know he doesn't like it.

We have done a lot of work with feeding time. It started with me putting my hand in the bowl and see if Joey growled. If he started to growl, then we took the bowl away and he sat on the floor with me in a chair and I fed him piece by piece. We also worked on basic commands during feeding time to remind him who was alpha dog ( the animal behav. told me he didn't respect me as alpha dog, but did respect scott, which is why he never did that stuff when scott was around) He was not allowed to eat until I gave the command for him to eat.
Joey was kicked out of bed, ( he used to sleep with us) that was a big no no, I was the one who had to kick him out and make him sleep on the floor. He could sleep with us she said only IF I asked him up on the bed.
All the toys were put away. Pippin was allowed one toy as well as joey, but for a while no toys were allowed out.
Joey has severe seasonal allergies, so badly we are always on benadryl and I can always tell right before he has a flare up. He is very cranky right before and just looks "off" I usually leave him alone as well as everyone else in the house.
Now he will sometimes growl or give molson a "look" if molson gets to close, and we only have to say his name and he gets up and moves to the kitchen. She also told me that under no circumstances were we to get a third dog. She said with two dogs Joey was the alpha and Pippin did not have a problem with the pecking order, if we were to get a third dog then we would have a pack and could have problems with the third personality we brought into the house. So for now, we will only ever have two dogs.
Cats are a totally different species from dogs and do not read the warning signs other dogs might. That is what she told me of Molson, we just had to supervise them for a long time. For some time, Molson spent the night in the spare bedroom until we could trust them together.
I know our problem was a combination of many things. The allergies, the hand raising ( the animal behav. told me most of her dogs with dog aggression are from being hand raised, they do not learn the proper socialization from their parents) She said the ideal age was 8-10 weeks old. Then they have learned the proper socialization from their littermates and their mother.the fact I let him be alpha dog around me, the chow etc etc. No two dogs are a like. I am truly sorry you are going through this. Joey will be six this year and we have been dealing with it for 4 years. I am just hoping as he ages he may mellow out a little bit. When we take him to the vet we are up front and honest about his problem, and we always take him with a muzzle, so he doesn't bite someones dog.

Hope some of the suggestions work. It is a day to day process and a love/dislike problem every day. After Joey attacked Molson, I told Scott to take him to the vet and have him put to sleep. I was so afraid he would attack someone or another dog, I was reacting out of fear, I always vowed to never have a "mean" dog.

Brandy · 06-08-2007, 07:13 AM

we actually did notice things when she was younger but I guess we ignored them

when we lived in town, my landlords lived above us, their 11 year old nephew used to come over, his name was Yanick,,,anyways Sasha HATED and I mean HATED this kid, even if he walked by the window she flipped, if the baby gate was up at the bottom of our stairs, then she couldnt get near any of the doors, but if we had all the doors locked , sometimes we could take the baby gate down so she could look out the patio doors up there, well one day Yanick walked through the back yard and I thought Sasha was going to go right through the patio doors at him, growling, barking, jumping at the door, hair standing up, it was very intense

I starting taking Sasha out on a leash when she had to potty, that way I could watch her and she was ALWAYS getting off when we tied her, and we have a hard time catching her once shes loose, anyways I had her out there on her leash, and my landlord and his brother was outside, I asked him if Yanick was there too and my landlords brother(Yanick's father) said yes, I tried to hurry Sasha up before he came outside, but Yanick came out anyway, as soon as Sasha seen him, her bladder let go, she was shaking like crazy and cowarding right down like someone had just hit her, when Yanick came a bit closer, she literally lunged at him,,,Thank god I had her on a leash, and I took her right in after that,,,after that incident she was never allowed around Yanick again,,,they usually told us when he was over so we wouldnt take her outside

also if ANY stray cats walked by the window and sat in them, she flipped, went completly crazy

there was another incident when I had the cops called on me, my landlords son had let Sasha out without being tied, I was rippin mad at him and trying to catch her again was always hard,,

well within minutes of her being lose, I had neighbors out yelling at me that my 'pitbull' just growled and bit a little girl,,,

the cops were called and the SPCA were called to come and catch her,,

as soon as I started crying, she came right to me, I think she knew there was big trouble, the cops showed up and he came right in and met Sasha, he explained to me that they called the SPCA and told them not to come since I caught Sasha AND after talking to the family and seeing the little girl, he doesnt believe she was bit, there wasnt a mark on her, not even a scratch...

but it was an eye opener for me, thats when I started taking her out on a leash...

my other neighbos had a small dog, when she barked at us, Sasha growled and tried to get at her

this stuff was all before she was 2 years old

when we FIRST moved here 2 years ago, she attacked Petkeeper's Mom's little dog when they came to visit, and now we're dealng with everything else

so there was signs when she was younger, stupid me, didnt know anything about dogs, basically ignored the signs, I admit, I made ALOT of mistakes, I met many Boxers in my lifetime and never seen any growl or be mean to anyone for that matter, never heard stories about them being aggressive,,,I shrugged it off as "oh Sasha just doesnt like that person" 99% of the time she was great with everyone and everything,,,

just recently Ive been doing alot of reading on Boxers in general and about their aggression issuses, and apparently Im not the only person running into this problem with their Boxers....BUT everyone I talk to with this problem, got their dgs from rescue/or backyard breeders (newspaper ads)

Ive learnt my lesson, and Theresa Im with you, I will never put myself in this position again, its an emotional rollercoaster

RossGirl · 06-08-2007, 10:42 AM

If you ever need to chat just pm me or you can email me to. I completely understand what you are going through every single day.
We didn't see as many warning signs with Joey as he was a puppy until we brought Pippin into the house.

Hang in there, You are doing everything you can!

RossGirl · 06-08-2007, 10:45 AM

PS, I have seriously considered calling the dog whisperer for advice

Brandy · 06-08-2007, 11:49 AM

ya know Teresa, I never really thought about it like that,,,BUT
we did get Nellie shortly after moving in here, thats when Sasha got worse,,THEN she got extremly worse once Mom and Ace moved in,,,

Mom is moving out again BUT Ace will still be here alot because Mom and Bob will be here visiting alot, plus they want to travel alot, so I will be taking care of Ace

do you think it will make her even worse with Ace coming and going all the time?
Also when my Dad visits he brings his little shihtzu with him,,,Sasha doesnt like her and shes never really around her,,Tika the shihtzu is usually always outside playing with Nellie, or in the car with my Dad, then at night time she sleeps in the camper trailor with Dad and Debbie, but the fact is, shes still here and when all the dogs are outside playing together in the yard, Sasha has to stay in the house

I love Cesar Milan, I wish he lived closer to me!!

Candice, I have tried distractions when we walk, Ive taken squeaky toys, food, treats, even raw liver....NOTHING works, she gets in this mode and seriously, its like she doesnt even realize Im there, so what I do is constantly try to block her vision from the other dog, wheter its me keeping my hand at the side of her face, or making sure my leg is blocking the other dog, if she gets really bad, I make her sit and I lift her face to make her look at me, and then try to keep her looking at me as we get by the house,,

but most of the darn dogs around here are not tied and they all run out to the road and follow you half way down,,,so shes constantly trying to get them because she knows they are walking behind her,,,