Rotties being given away after another death of a child in UK

Ally · 12-31-2007, 01:35 PM

I have just been reading on the BBC website about a dog rehoming charity in Wales where they are being inundated with unwanted rotties following the death of a toddler last week.

This really angers me greatly.

Rotties are wonderful dogs in the right hands, they are one of the most loyal breeds around but sadly due to their build and size, they are often bought as status symbols and treated meanly and made unnaturally aggressive.

The death last week was tragic, but when you consider the circumstances....a 7 year old child holding a toddler and who walks out into the back garden where a 2 year old rottie is playing.....think about it....a young child, holding an even younger child who was probably squealing and waving its arms about. Sorry but if the rottie thought it was a squeaky toy and grabbed it, who is to blame for that?

Any dog is capable of aggression...the only dog ever to have bitten me was a golden retriever. I have owned dogs, including rotties, GSD's, pits and a multitude of others through fostering, all of which had been abused by previous owners, so definate candidates for being nasty or aggressive....not one of them was to me and I took precautions when I took them out in public so that they would not be aggressive or frightening to anyone.

Giving away rotties incase they might bite someone is crazy, putting them down incase they might bite someone is crazy.

Just don't place children in the same area as ANY dog without adult supervision.

The child who died was carried by a 7 year old and was being babysat by a 16 year old....that is asking for trouble.

Never...never...NEVER leave children alone with a dog...whether it be a Great Dane or a Maltese Terrier. They are animals 1st, pets 2nd and even the very best trained dog will turn if it feels threatened or if it misunderstands what is happening around it.

I would love another rottie, I would happily take on one of the many being given away by scared owners....scared about the bad press over the dog, not scared of the dog itself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7165880.stm

Some of the rotties listed here are beautiful young dogs who have been well looked after and pose no threat, yet their owners have felt forced to give them away or even put them down, just due to bad press...

http://www.freewebs.com/manytearsres...ngforhomes.htm

puppylove · 02-27-2008, 10:16 PM

I have to say as a rottie mix owner I hate when something happens and the pounds are suddenly swamped with "dangerous" animals. Rotties are herding dogs. Not monsters. They love kids and make excellent family pets. My oldest was raised with the neighbor's blind niece. She poked, pulled, bumped into and stepped on him and he never even growled a warning at her. She could have copped off his tail and he would have turned around and licker her face. Irresponsible owners cause these uneeded problems, where education and training (which all pets need) could keep them from ever happening.

Fluffball · 02-28-2008, 08:44 AM

Why is everyone picking on Rotties? They are by far one of the most loyal and loving breeds of dogs, and far more trustworthy and predictable than Pitbulls from my experiences.

They are big dogs, but they can do very well when raised and cared for properly.

Seriously, they seem to be getting a bad rep for incidents such as this one.

Leave the Rotties alone

BillysMa · 02-29-2008, 03:31 PM

It's not just rotties-I don't think that any of the bigger, stronger dogs should be kept in the same house as a young child. They are as you say animals, and even the best training can be forgotten when provoked. There are times too, when a child will manage to be alone with a dog. Unless you are planning on keeping the dog caged 24/7, or else keep the child a prisoner in a play yard till they turn ten, there is always a chance of them coming together.

Supervision is not unnecessarily enough. Aren't rotties one of the breeds that once they have locked their jaws on something they won't let go, literally, till they are dead? Even supervision from the mother could not overcome that. There is no way that I could overpower a rottie that was attacking a child, nor would I fancy my chances at surviving if I did.

Our children deserve to grow up in safety. Perhaps this incident just reminded these owners that the animal that they love was bought for the wrong reason. If that is the case, it is better to re-house now and give the dog a chance at a good life, re-trained and with owners who know what they are doing, than risk someone's life, and then having the dog put down after they maul someone.

Ally · 03-01-2008, 03:10 AM

Rotties don't lock down...pits can and usually do...dobermans have back facing teeth so if they bite they can't let go without ripping the flesh (or clothing).

Rotties are soft as butter if treated and trained properly. Mine were played with by neighbours children...ridden on sat on etc and they didn't worry. If they got fed up of the kids, they were trained by me to get up, walk into the house and lay down.

I have retrained aggressive rotties, it is hard work sometimes, but they are very intelligent (perhaps too intelligent), they know when an owner is doing things to help them.

The dogs often bought thesedays as status symbols and beaten into being nasty are staffies, pits and staffy/pit crosses. They are not nasty by nature, only by the way they are treated.

Luvmykitty · 03-01-2008, 09:16 AM

Why on earth would you allow a 7-year old outside alone with a toddler in the first place, whether there was a dog or not?? Did she expect the 7-year old to be supervising the toddler? People hire irresponsible babysitters or are irresponsible themselves and then blame it on the animal...crazy world.

Fluffball · 03-01-2008, 02:38 PM

So yet again, animals are the ones who end up paying for the stupidity of humans.

Dogs are dogs, and sometimes they let their instincts get the better of them.

People however should be aware of this, and take greater precautions to prevent such incidents from occurring in the first place!

BillysMa · 03-03-2008, 10:28 PM

Ally, thank you, I thought they were also dogs that locked down. I am glad that you have had such success with them-the trouble is that most people do not take the time that is needed to train these animals well. As you say they are a status symbol, and not given the right treatment.

But kids shouldn't pay the price that results in this lack of treatment. Since people have shown time and time again that they cannot do things right, a license of some kind or other measures might help enforce a layer of protection. That way, there wouldn't be the dogs being destroyed and so on. Because I agree-it is NOT fair that the animals are being destroyed for the inability of their owners to do things right. But it's also not fair for kids to be mauled to death by a dog gone bad.

The other thing and I am sure you can tell me if this is true or not-aren't these one of the highly inbred (for desired characteristics) breeds? I have heard time and again the breeding of dogs like this leads to an unstable personality, with even well trained dogs being capable of going nuts. That scares me, it really does.

But I will be honest-there are only a few breeds of dogs I would allow around my child. And oddly enough one of those is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier-so I too love a breed that could potentially be dangerous, but I am well aware that these dogs are NOT over bred, don't have personality issues, and really can be trained to be pussy cats. The one we had growing up slept on my bed, never left my side, never pulled when being walked. She was a show dog till she got too fat, and was just amazing.

Ally · 03-04-2008, 02:23 AM

Rotties and Dobies are not inbred, so they don't inherit traits of aggression.

There is no such thing as a bad dog. It is the owner that causes the problem in the early years.

In the same way a child is brought up. You bring up a child to swear, spit and disrespect everyone, it will grow up thinking that is the right way to be and become an out of control thug.

A puppy will grow into aggressive behaviour if it is beaten, kicked, goaded to bite or trained to fight.

My German Shepherd dog was 5 years old when I rescued him. In that time he had 5 previous owners, he was wild, aggressive (except with me)...he was a psychotic mess to the extreme that he wet himself if he saw his own shadow. It took me 2 years to train him out of that and gain his own confidence that people were not there to beat him (he had been beaten to within an inch of his life). One day I was out with him and he caught sight of his ex owner and he basically had a nervous breakdown, so with a very heavy heart I had him put to sleep as it was not fair to keep him alive in that state. He was a wonderful animal, very loving (once he knew how to be loving - that had been beaten out of him from an early age). The vet also confirmed he had been beaten across his hips and shoulders...in cold/wet weather he was always a bit stiff there, so he wouldn't have had a pain free life, even if he had been treated.

Staffies are usually dogs that young thugs have and they kick them and beat them and goad them. Older adults use Rotties in the same way.

In the US they use Pits for fighting, which in most states is illegal. The fighting usually is a cover for other illegal practice, such as drugs etc. That scenario is becoming common over here in the UK and staffies, Pits etc are used/abused.

Another thing that should be remembered, no dog will train to a muzzle easily from adult. It isn't impossible but it does distress an adult dog alot more than a pup. So if you have a so-called dangerous breed, train it from pup to wear a muzzle as something as simple as that can cause a dog to get aggressive...not due to being nasty but out of frustration.

BillysMa · 03-05-2008, 11:43 AM

I have been doing a little reading on rottweilers since first reading this thread, and yes I now see what you are talking about that it is the training (or lack thereof), but also the breeding that causes aggression. I now see that yes, they can be wonderful animals if raised properly, however.

The risk remains that they may be incorrectly raised and it would seem that this is a very common situation given that they are often status dogs. Given the fact that a hugely aggressive dog may result from incorrect rearing, do you think it would be in the animal's interests for licensing to be required for ownership? I know that here in the UK there has often been talk of adding these to the dangerous dogs act.

But what of a simple license that would require attendance of professional training, and ownership classes? Because like I say I think that the current situation is unfair both on the dogs and on the people who are around them. It is unfair for the animal to be destroyed just because it was raised incorrectly, and unfair that humans are sometimes severely hurt by these badly raised animals. A license might prevent this situation.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that a miniature or toy poodle is unlikely to be able to kill a person. It simply hasn't the size or strength, but any of those who do have the ability, should be looked at very differently. A license for those potentially dangerous animals could prevent unneeded deaths amongst the animals and the humans around them.

ETA; licenses pertaining to ownership of pets are common in the US, and require you to have met certain conditions, which is why I raise this possibility.